Is this for real?
I had a recruiter email me the following:
With this email came an attachment with the following extract:
I emailed the recruiter back indicating my reservations about being tested. He then emailed me the following:
I still have my reservations about this test and the renumeration offered so have respectfully declined, however if anyone here wished to try and see if they can earn
€3000 then I will ask recruiter for further details and post here - any takers???
| Hey there, I hope you are well. I found your profile on CareerJunction. Our client, Think Cell, is looking for ten C++ Developers to join their team. They have been developing MS PowerPoint Plug-Ins for the last 20 years and remain one of the key providers to enhance Microsoft's product. The role is fully remote from South Africa, but if you'd prefer to relocate to Berlin, they can accommodate sponsoring a Blue Card (Working Visa) and will pay for 1 month's accommodation and a one-way flight to Berlin for you and your immediate family. Salary is dependent on the candidate, as they are looking for a mix of junior-to-expert levels. We're looking at between €50k - €130k per year. If this is of interest to you, kindly respond with an updated CV, and I'll give you a call to discuss the interview process and address any other questions or concerns you may have. |
With this email came an attachment with the following extract:
| We are looking for smart, creative developers with a solid theoretical background. Our team of developers consists of those with 15+ years of commercial experience in various fields, to fresh graduates in Computer Science, Physics and Mathematics. A university degree or work experience with C++, together with a fresh and creative problem-solving approach would be an excellent combination for this role. As all of our recruitment steps are task-based, the selection is based on the skills demonstrated during our tests. |
I emailed the recruiter back indicating my reservations about being tested. He then emailed me the following:
| Thanks for your response. I understand the reluctance to do a test, and I am grateful, in that regard, that I am not a developer in the modern-day way of testing. Fortunately, in this case, Think-Cell is actually offering €3000 if anyone completes the tests successfully. They are looking for ten developers as mentioned. |
I still have my reservations about this test and the renumeration offered so have respectfully declined, however if anyone here wished to try and see if they can earn
€3000 then I will ask recruiter for further details and post here - any takers???
if they ask you for travel, beware of it. If they are truly remote and fully remote, it could be real. There isn't enough to go by to say.
That is not much money in the grand scheme of things. Its a lot if every schmuck just out of college passes their test and they have to pay it 50,000 times, but presumably either most people fail or they pay the top 50 or whatever people and then weed it down to their 10 etc. Finding highly qualified candidates is expensive, I suppose this is A way to do it -- no worse than squandering the same amount on hotels and airplane tickets or headhunters etc.
That is not much money in the grand scheme of things. Its a lot if every schmuck just out of college passes their test and they have to pay it 50,000 times, but presumably either most people fail or they pay the top 50 or whatever people and then weed it down to their 10 etc. Finding highly qualified candidates is expensive, I suppose this is A way to do it -- no worse than squandering the same amount on hotels and airplane tickets or headhunters etc.
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Getting an unsolicited email/phone call would be for me a major "red flag." I've had things like this happen in the past several times and each instance it was a scam trying to get money or something else. Like my personal info.
Does the recruiter have a proper business email address (not a gmail/yahoo personal address)?
If you visit the apparent domain of the email address, do you find a bona-fide website?
Are they a registered business in your locality?
How long have they been in business?
If you visit the apparent domain of the email address, do you find a bona-fide website?
Are they a registered business in your locality?
How long have they been in business?
| Does the recruiter have a proper business email address (not a gmail/yahoo personal address)? |
Yes the recruiter does have a proper email address and website for domain, but cannot really answer the last 2 questions or whether they are local and how long are they in business.
| Getting an unsolicited email/phone call would be for me a major "red flag." I've had things like this happen in the past several times and each instance it was a scam trying to get money or something else. Like my personal info. |
I can relate to that - I even had scammers trying to extract free solutions from me in the past.
I once searched back through my email account and realized that the individual I was dealing with at a particular current time was exactly the same person I dealt with 2+ years previously when I answered about 3 ~ 4 tests of his. I then realized that he was building his own personal system with getting people like myself to provide solutions to his problems.
| If they are truly remote and fully remote, it could be real. |
Thats not really what concerns me - don't mind travelling.
| That is not much money in the grand scheme of things. |
I get that however; my main concern is how can one be assured that the "deal" will be honoured. The recruiter claimed:
| Think-Cell is actually offering €3000 if anyone completes the tests successfully. |
what constitutes "successfully completed???"
I have to ask because as mentioned in above post to George P I had "recruiters" take me for a ride in the past by having me answer tests which I would consider successfully answered but somehow not according to them.
I can understand that there are 1000 ways to skin a cat ... however if some "recruiters / tester" pretends that one way is the only way to proceed (with a valid good reason) then one would need to consider such an individual to be unreasonably petty or is hiding behind some sinister agenda.
Thats why I won't answer this test myself but would gladly posts recruiters stuff in job section if any of the members from this site would like to have a go. My theory is that if none of the members of this site who have a go are supposedly unsuccessful then I will have proven my concern to be valid. ie I will not accept that none of the members from a site like this would all be unsuccessful. However, if the members of this site who try the test all succeed I'd like to see where it goes after each member receives their €3000.
Alternatively the members could also report that the amount offered is far too little for the test requirements.
An internet research shows that most of the claims a correct. The company exists and they are looking for developers and they are doing test.
There is just no hint that they offer money for a successful test. That would not make any sense. The result is supposed to be a contract.
If you are interested into that position I would recommend to go to their site directly and try the tests there.
There is just no hint that they offer money for a successful test. That would not make any sense. The result is supposed to be a contract.
If you are interested into that position I would recommend to go to their site directly and try the tests there.
| There is just no hint that they offer money for a successful test. That would not make any sense. |
I also did not pick up anything about payment for a completed test - this is what the agent emailed me - so I'd like to see this agent to "put his money where his mouth is" so to speak.
If he was lying to me about this payment, then I would think it right to have this exposed on public - ie. I don't think people like that should be making false offers in our field - period.
If however, he is not lying, then members of this site should be at least benefitted by having an opportunity to earn just over $3000 + contracts and the recruiter should be benefitted by having nearly all 10 positions filled.
If I get even 1 or 2 members from this site wanting to try this, I will get the details from him and inform him to proceed by engaging with members directly.
Are there any takers? Or if not why would no one from here try it out? - just curious.
| Or if not why would no one from here try it out? |
| Well, that tests promises a lot of stress. I guess there need to be a real good reason to do and it appears to be a little bit well fishy... |
Thank you for this update - it affirms my own feelings about it.
I emailed the recruiter telling him that nobody on this site seems to trust this test and could not find any mention of the renumeration he reported to me personally. I inquired from him where this was stipulated.
The recruiter emailed me back claiming that this deal was made between Think Cell and his agency (smells fishy as hell to me) and then quickly wanted to know if he should proceed with me to write the test (go figure!)
I then emailed him back telling him exactly why I posted this here - was that I had absolutely no intention of writing this test but wanted to see what members from such a forum would say about it - I then told him what the views of this site was concerning it and indicated that my own feelings I had against this test was thus just made stronger.
Not sure on what this site's members views are on writing of tests in order to stand a chance to maybe secure an interview for a position that you would like to apply for - should I post it rather in its own topic / post?
Ah, dealing with a 'third party "recruiter."' Think Cell probably doesn't have a clue about the situation with this person, if the company were contacted about what's goin' on. This might be legit, but so far all my "scammer!" alarm bells ringing are deafening me.
Daily I get lots of emails, over 100 easily on each of my several spam email accounts, from scammers using legit company names and close-to-real site URLs to get the unaware to get hooked by the scam.
If'n this were me I'd write this off as a scam, writ big time, and block any further emails.
Think "Nigerian Prince," if it sounds too good/lucrative, it's likely a scam.
But then I'm an old fart who's suspicious of lots of what goes on with the internet. Especially with email contact I never initiated.
Daily I get lots of emails, over 100 easily on each of my several spam email accounts, from scammers using legit company names and close-to-real site URLs to get the unaware to get hooked by the scam.
If'n this were me I'd write this off as a scam, writ big time, and block any further emails.
Think "Nigerian Prince," if it sounds too good/lucrative, it's likely a scam.
But then I'm an old fart who's suspicious of lots of what goes on with the internet. Especially with email contact I never initiated.
https://www.think-cell.com/en/career/overview
1. Is the recruiter offering anything listed here?
2. You could drop their outreach contact a message, asking if the recruiter is legit.
Large companies tend to have preferred supplier lists of recruiters and agencies that are allowed to find candidates for them. If your recruiter isn't on their list, it's almost certainly a scam of some sort.
> As all of our recruitment steps are task-based...
Another scenario is the "recruiter" is really a sub-contractor and the "questions" are really just bits of work that need to be done. They dangle the carrot of $K, get a bunch of responses, pick the solution(s) which work for them and say "sorry, your answer wasn't good enough to get out of paying".
Or it's a recent employee who scammed their way into the company with a fake CV. They're hopelessly out of their depth trying to get other people to do their work assignments. You do the work, they get paid (and you don't).
The only way to be sure would be for multiple people sign up and compare notes. Did everyone get exactly the same test, with clearly defined pass/fail criteria.
1. Is the recruiter offering anything listed here?
| If you have any questions regarding working at think-cell, our job openings or events, please feel free to contact... |
Large companies tend to have preferred supplier lists of recruiters and agencies that are allowed to find candidates for them. If your recruiter isn't on their list, it's almost certainly a scam of some sort.
> As all of our recruitment steps are task-based...
Another scenario is the "recruiter" is really a sub-contractor and the "questions" are really just bits of work that need to be done. They dangle the carrot of $K, get a bunch of responses, pick the solution(s) which work for them and say "sorry, your answer wasn't good enough to get out of paying".
Or it's a recent employee who scammed their way into the company with a fake CV. They're hopelessly out of their depth trying to get other people to do their work assignments. You do the work, they get paid (and you don't).
The only way to be sure would be for multiple people sign up and compare notes. Did everyone get exactly the same test, with clearly defined pass/fail criteria.
| Is the recruiter offering anything listed here? |
I don't think so, the recruiter informed me that this was the deal Think Cell apparently made with his company.
| You could drop their outreach contact a message, asking if the recruiter is legit. |
I will do that, however I have been in situations before where I found actual companies also scavenging for free source code. I once realized that an individual pretending to be an interviewer had me busy with an interview that eventually spanned over a year - he apparently just vanished after I answered a few exhausting questions and then came back more than a year later with "another" interview for the same "company / product".
At first I wasn't aware that I have dealt with this individual more than a year ago, so procced once again to answer a few tests. I eventually told him when he wanted me to write another test, that I would only do so if I have it in writing that I would be assured the position if I pass the test.
This individual was quite upset with me requesting this to which I indicated that I was quite upset with him scrutinizing my qualifications with these tests.
Other companies administering tests appeared to be disingenuous a few times about honouring the test parameters / "deals" made. Usually one has no legal recourse to address such things - this is why I personally don't write "tests" anymore, however thought members from this site have a different perspective because of doing things a little differently.
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| Think "Nigerian Prince," if it sounds too good/lucrative, it's likely a scam. |
I agree - the issue I find is that the "Nigerian Prince" is not only the recruiter but also as pointed in my previous post, are actual members from the company who are doing this type of thing in an official capacity.
| But then I'm an old fart who's suspicious of lots of what goes on with the internet. Especially with email contact I never initiated. |
I am a younger fart who is also suspicious of the same things due to actual finger burns I got. I wouldn't be surprised if many young folks have also been burnt in the same way (albeit a younger developer is less likely to be exploited for complex type solutions) or were just given tests to have them psychometrically evaluated in order to load up their recruiter databases.
| The only way to be sure would be for multiple people sign up and compare notes. Did everyone get exactly the same test, with clearly defined pass/fail criteria. |
As mentioned earlier, one cannot enforce them legally to honour the "deal" or could quite easily find that the pass/fail criteria is not that clear to define which gives them a way out legally.
At this point it wouldn't help much if a bunch of individuals already answered the test as the "recruiter/company" just runs away with everyone's work without paying for it or giving anyone a job.
My university lectures used to tell us that we as programmers / software developers should have a portfolio with which we should market ourselves. Is this what you guys were also told?
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