Study Group for Beginners [recruiting]
Pages: 12
I just read this thread, and was surprised at how far it went astray from its intention. I'd like to bring it back round to where it was meant to be, and perhaps help explain the distinction between the Google Group that KuzuRanger created and cplusplus.com.
The most accurate way to think of the Google Group is a study group like those you might have joined in college or high school. The subject matter is C++, but the specific course is up to the individual and what text book s/he feels comfortable with. Ideally, a few top notch text books will be settled on (I'm partial to Prata), and self-learners can go at their own pace. The important part is to have a group -- a community -- at the same "level" with whom students can share their projects, programming exercises, and ideas. Group learning has been demonstrated as a valuable and effective learning technique; peer exchange and collaboration have spawned some of the most amazing technology breakthroughs to date.
In this respect, cplusplus.com and the Google group are not at all rivals. cplusplus.com is a reference site with an extensive library and an "ask the experts" forum, but lacks community for the self-learner. In fact, the basic premise of the cplusplus.com forums makes it unsuitable for community; it is designed for posters to ask very specific questions about very specific pieces of code or concepts. A site like this can be intimidating to newcomers specifically because they are speaking with experts, and do not wish to appear foolish. It's the same instinct that keeps kids from raising their hands in a regular classroom.
As you'll have noticed, questions requiring more complicated answers or that involve more thorough explanations of concepts are frequently disregarded while questions that involve simple posting of code receive numerous -- often contrary -- responses from the experts. Many of the posters on cplusplus.com are hit-and-run, asking a "how-to" question and are never seen again. There is a demonstrated need for that kind of site, and cplusplus.com does an admirable job. However, it has no provisions for group projects and is not generally conducive to group learning because it was not designed with those things in mind.
I am an active member in KuzuRanger's group, and am a newcomer to C++. However, getting back to the idea of "blind leading the blind" and lack of experts and guidance, I think there were some pretty big presumptions made. I first started programming Basic on a TRS-80, then assembly on a Commodore 64 (which I still use today to operate digital servos). Following the path of programmers of that time, I had to learn Fortran and COBOL at UCONN. By the time Windows was too big to ignore any longer, I started programming in Object Pascal, and then, as it matured into Microsoft's flagship product, Visual Basic and VBA. My programming career has spanned 2 decades, and I've worked as a programmer for WebMD and Newhouse Publishing. So... while I'm a C++ newbie, I'll put my computer science up against just about anyone's. :-) Granted, my first reaction to std::cout was "What the heck is that?!" but it's just another language; it has the same features as most, and the same concepts generally apply. In that regard, I feel uniquely qualified to help, but if I don't know the answer to something specific to C++, I would certainly refer anyone to cplusplus.com. I see that relationship as a partnership, not as a rivalry, and I see myself as just another student, not as an instructor.
Someone earlier asked what good can come of a bunch of beginners banding together, and I tell you that it's probably the most beneficial way to learn because it fosters learning through experimentation. When people are willing to try everything because they aren't under time constraint or fear of getting it "wrong" they actually learn something. This is not my opinion -- this is demonstrated fact in the academic world. The teacher-centric pedagogy is a good one if you like listening to boring lectures about abstract topics, but nothing can teach as well or make as lasting an impression as trial and error when those trials are based on fundamental understanding.
Aaanyway...
I think KuzuRanger's idea is a good one, and I encourage anyone to join who has an interest in learning C++. We have no experts, and it works that way. If you need an expert, they are here, at cplusplus.com. If you want a friend to work on your project with you, or help you puzzle things out the old fashioned way, we're at http://groups.google.com/group/cplusplus-beginners and our sister message board site is here: http://www.cppbeginners.com
The most accurate way to think of the Google Group is a study group like those you might have joined in college or high school. The subject matter is C++, but the specific course is up to the individual and what text book s/he feels comfortable with. Ideally, a few top notch text books will be settled on (I'm partial to Prata), and self-learners can go at their own pace. The important part is to have a group -- a community -- at the same "level" with whom students can share their projects, programming exercises, and ideas. Group learning has been demonstrated as a valuable and effective learning technique; peer exchange and collaboration have spawned some of the most amazing technology breakthroughs to date.
In this respect, cplusplus.com and the Google group are not at all rivals. cplusplus.com is a reference site with an extensive library and an "ask the experts" forum, but lacks community for the self-learner. In fact, the basic premise of the cplusplus.com forums makes it unsuitable for community; it is designed for posters to ask very specific questions about very specific pieces of code or concepts. A site like this can be intimidating to newcomers specifically because they are speaking with experts, and do not wish to appear foolish. It's the same instinct that keeps kids from raising their hands in a regular classroom.
As you'll have noticed, questions requiring more complicated answers or that involve more thorough explanations of concepts are frequently disregarded while questions that involve simple posting of code receive numerous -- often contrary -- responses from the experts. Many of the posters on cplusplus.com are hit-and-run, asking a "how-to" question and are never seen again. There is a demonstrated need for that kind of site, and cplusplus.com does an admirable job. However, it has no provisions for group projects and is not generally conducive to group learning because it was not designed with those things in mind.
I am an active member in KuzuRanger's group, and am a newcomer to C++. However, getting back to the idea of "blind leading the blind" and lack of experts and guidance, I think there were some pretty big presumptions made. I first started programming Basic on a TRS-80, then assembly on a Commodore 64 (which I still use today to operate digital servos). Following the path of programmers of that time, I had to learn Fortran and COBOL at UCONN. By the time Windows was too big to ignore any longer, I started programming in Object Pascal, and then, as it matured into Microsoft's flagship product, Visual Basic and VBA. My programming career has spanned 2 decades, and I've worked as a programmer for WebMD and Newhouse Publishing. So... while I'm a C++ newbie, I'll put my computer science up against just about anyone's. :-) Granted, my first reaction to std::cout was "What the heck is that?!" but it's just another language; it has the same features as most, and the same concepts generally apply. In that regard, I feel uniquely qualified to help, but if I don't know the answer to something specific to C++, I would certainly refer anyone to cplusplus.com. I see that relationship as a partnership, not as a rivalry, and I see myself as just another student, not as an instructor.
Someone earlier asked what good can come of a bunch of beginners banding together, and I tell you that it's probably the most beneficial way to learn because it fosters learning through experimentation. When people are willing to try everything because they aren't under time constraint or fear of getting it "wrong" they actually learn something. This is not my opinion -- this is demonstrated fact in the academic world. The teacher-centric pedagogy is a good one if you like listening to boring lectures about abstract topics, but nothing can teach as well or make as lasting an impression as trial and error when those trials are based on fundamental understanding.
Aaanyway...
I think KuzuRanger's idea is a good one, and I encourage anyone to join who has an interest in learning C++. We have no experts, and it works that way. If you need an expert, they are here, at cplusplus.com. If you want a friend to work on your project with you, or help you puzzle things out the old fashioned way, we're at http://groups.google.com/group/cplusplus-beginners and our sister message board site is here: http://www.cppbeginners.com
Yo man, thanks for making this group. I had no clue Google Groups even existed, haha.
Anyway I'm 15 and my goal is to own my own video game company, so this is going to help me a bunch. I'll see you on the forums ;-).
Anyway I'm 15 and my goal is to own my own video game company, so this is going to help me a bunch. I'll see you on the forums ;-).
Topic archived. No new replies allowed.
Pages: 12