Programmer age group

[elvenspike]

never said it was a good argument, but since when did people become limited to only good arguments? stupid people. stupid arguments. duh. and i agree with you completely on the whole "but people use computers" thing though. :P

and wouldn't

int main () {
	return 0;
}

does that even compile?? it should... unless you need a library for int? i just have a habit of putting in certain libraries that i almost always use or are almost always required, so im hardly ever sure what requires what. :P yeah, ik its a horrible habit. but still. i still like my Fact or Fiction game :D lol.

[chrisname]

Yeah that would compile.
And you don't really need an output lib for output. But it would mean writing an operating system and a c++ compiler for that OS and then writing to video memory, character by character.

See you in a few years :)

Or you could man up and learn x86. I can barely comprehend registers *shudder*. I even have trouble with pointers. I just don't really understand why they're so useful.
And for the record, I started C++ in February or March *this year, when I was 14. I was 15 in May.

[helios]

Technically, the shortest standard C++ program is int main(){}, but that doesn't say much.

And you don't really need an output lib for output. But it would mean writing an operating system and a c++ compiler for that OS and then writing to video memory, character by character.

Yes...
Or you could, you know, use the BIOS.

[chrisname]

And how do you access it? I know there's a bios.h...
Which would mean using a library.
Or can you do it without?

[helios]

Yes. They're called interrupts.

[chrisname]

Oh? I thought that had something to do with device drivers?
Evidently I don't know that much about operating systems. I know more about hardware, although until I misguidedly attempted to learn ASM I had never heard of registers. And I still don't know what they are.

[helios]

Then I'm sorry to tell you, but you don't know about hardware.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS#Changing_role_of_the_BIOS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrupt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Processor_register
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_machine

[chrisname]

No, not the more advanced things like that. But still more, at least, than the Ict teacher knows, and more than most of the people I know know. And they mostly only know things about brands and such.

Also after reading the registers article, it turns out I did know what they are. But thanks for the links, I'll enjoy reading those. I love all of that kind of thing, I started reading loads about hardware after i realised I knew next to nothing about it when I was asked what parallel processing is. I could answer it now...

[Gregor]

you cant acess interupts with plain c or cpp and their libs, so you will need some asm knowledge (x86, x64 or MAC, tho I dunno if the last is used anymore since there are intel procesors in macs nowdays)


I think that today computer industry is consisted of not two but three kinds of engineers, those who make hardware (from chip to chipset), those who make it work (OS and libs), and those who develop apps on that.

Sometimes a company plays a role of first two when releasing a product (playstation, xbox, iphone..)

@elvenspike

never said it was a good argument, but since when did people become limited to only good arguments? stupid people. stupid arguments.

that implies that you're stupid.

akhm sorry, sorry had to write it.

@helios
that's an interesting blog. A few years ago my class was put to a test - we started to learn C, today only half of us remain due to this subject. Due to this, school added an program to teach idiotic stuff that they want to sell as programming (HTML in first two years). They're also slowly killing the electrical programs due to lack of interest.

One of my Electronic engineering professors told me that he had to change the program he has been using for years because students couldnt keep up. WTF? That shouldnt be allowed, it's making the population standards lower, since you'll get an A for what you used to get an C.

edit: deleted the confusing intro paragraph

[chrisname]

That is silly.
I think I've already expressed my thorough dislike of the drag and drop tools in VB, VC++, VCS etc. That extends to .NET. I don't trust frameworks like that. Why write a compiled language when the user has to install some stuff anyway?
And it's not exactly compact, either.

[helios]

No, not the more advanced things like that.

Those concepts are pretty basic. You're probably thinking of "advanced compared to what a non-programmer knows", which isn't much.

That extends to .NET. I don't trust frameworks like that. Why write a compiled language when the user has to install some stuff anyway?

There's plenty of situations where running bytecode is more suitable than running native code. And, of course, there's even more situations where bytecode is run even though native code would be better. You can thank hype for that.
The point is, you don't see this because you're not the intended audience for this kind of language.

Gregor: At least you weren't taught accounting, or labor law. I tell you, if any of my children want to become programmers one day, I will not be sending them to a technical school.
Oh god, I just remembered I know how to do technical drawing. WHY DO I KNOW THIS?

[chrisname]

What do you mean I'm not the 'target audience'? What is their target audience?

And I know what you mean about how basic things to you seem relatively complex to me, I've not been programming long.

[demosthenes2k8]

Time spent doesn't always equal knowledge. I know people who are really fast learners, and people who spend forever learning simple things...I was 13 when I started, and was one of the fastest learners in my grade in my robotics team.

@Gregor: It stinks that they forced you to take HTML. When I took a class on web design (willingly) I already knew most of what I was taught, so it wasn't too bad, but they shouldn't be using it as a replacement for real programming. Students couldn't keep up? Why not? Laziness?

[Gregor]

we only had a few hours of html so its fine for me; only the new students get to slowpoke that. And yes, I think so, no motivation. Who is to blame em, we've just discovered sex^^

@helios:
something similiar happend to my father, he swore the same thing and is now supporting me 100% with everything. that has to suck:S